Durable/serious arm hardware ?

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Durable/serious arm hardware ?

john smith-3

Hello

I'd like to hear from the most skilled of you, if anybody knows serious
arm based hardware or share this though : I'm becoming convinced that
theses hardware (arm based) are just the consumable-smartphone fashion
counterpart for kids and leisures or tests. Not really final and
carefully finished products; abble to works for years or a decade; doing
is job in a office corner, being forgotten  by anyone, like some of my
older freebsd servers wich are running for a decade now.


Those past years, I've bought 3 arm based devices :

1 raspberry-pi , which was affected by the "micron-ram-chip" bug: except
with debian, it never booted on freebsd (I even tried netbsd): I just
trashed it yesterday (bought in 2014 i think).

1 Beagleboneblack : works fine for weeks then freeze suddenly. And
sometimes did not event reboot (*): had to loop-reset it until boot
process go to the end. Seem the most "workable" product so far.. (bought
in 2015)

1 olimex a20-lime2-emmc: my most recent buy. It did not event boot with
network with it's own debian sd card... (I did not yet take time to make
it's own freebsd sd card): (bought in 2016-07).

My goals, for example, with theses boards were to give some of my nomads
customers, a box with an autonomous dhcp/dns/vpn server on theyr
networks, without the need to change anything else than disabling their
dhcp servers for instance : I think a Quad xeon racked server is a bit
too much for theses tasks; I was using pfsence on pcengines boards
before to do this kind of things.

Since my conclusions are based only on theses 3 boards, I'd like to hear
from thoses of you who works daily with these boards, and thoses opinion
are based on far more than my hand counted experiences.


PM.



(*) I work with a 5V/5A (25w) psu: that's not an overloaded psu problem;
Not a damaged emmc/sd card problem too: all my systems are
read-only-root based: seems to really be an hardware issue.




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Re: Durable/serious arm hardware ?

tech-lists
On 22/01/2017 10:19, nowhere wrote:
> 1 raspberry-pi , which was affected by the "micron-ram-chip" bug: except
> with debian, it never booted on freebsd (I even tried netbsd): I just
> trashed it yesterday (bought in 2014 i think).

I have 5 rpi boards:

1x rpi2+
3x rpi2B
1x rpi3

The rpis I treat (mainly) as single-purpose devices and for that they
are (in my experience) very stable. The exception being the rpi3 which
will be a (hardened) freebsd server for the internal network. Most of
these pis are on 24/7. The pi3 is better suited than the pi2x for a
server role. It would be worthwhile attaching a usb hd to the pi3 for data.

Although I've worn out a few microsd cards, I think that's been caused
by my own ignorance in not allocating external media for a busy
filesystem. All the pi hardware still works though, and I've had the
pi2+ abd 2B since they came out.

I've had one of the pi2Bs as a (32-bit) mail server running exim which
failed because of my above mentioned ignorance. The pi3 runs hardenedBSD
entirely in 64bit and seems very stable unless I thrash the microsd by
installing ports and not exporting $WORKDIR to external (and easily
replacable) media, like a usb stick.

I haven't been able to get vanilla freebsd/aarch64 running on the rpi3 yet.
--
J.
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Re: Durable/serious arm hardware ?

tech-lists
On 22/01/2017 11:35, tech-lists wrote:
> The rpis I treat (mainly) as single-purpose devices and for that they
> are (in my experience) very stable. The exception being the rpi3 which
> will be a (hardened) freebsd server for the internal network.

aaaagh...! The exception to being a *single-purpose device!!* In other
words, the rpi3 is multi-purpose.

The rpi3 is very stable. In that it's not crashed yet unless I do
something stupid.

--
J.
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Re: Durable/serious arm hardware ?

Karl Denninger
On 1/22/2017 05:59, tech-lists wrote:

> On 22/01/2017 11:35, tech-lists wrote:
>> The rpis I treat (mainly) as single-purpose devices and for that they
>> are (in my experience) very stable. The exception being the rpi3 which
>> will be a (hardened) freebsd server for the internal network.
> aaaagh...! The exception to being a *single-purpose device!!* In other
> words, the rpi3 is multi-purpose.
>
> The rpi3 is very stable. In that it's not crashed yet unless I do
> something stupid.
>
I have a number of RPI2 devices in production use running
process-control type things and none of them has had stability
problems.  I *have* had SD card issues on occasion, but that's not the
machine itself..... of the RPI2s I've got in use I've had zero failures
and no stability problems at all.

--
Karl Denninger
[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
/The Market Ticker/
/[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]/

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Re: Durable/serious arm hardware ?

Ronald Klop
In reply to this post by tech-lists
On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 12:35:32 +0100, tech-lists <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> On 22/01/2017 10:19, nowhere wrote:
>> 1 raspberry-pi , which was affected by the "micron-ram-chip" bug: except
>> with debian, it never booted on freebsd (I even tried netbsd): I just
>> trashed it yesterday (bought in 2014 i think).
>
> I have 5 rpi boards:
>
> 1x rpi2+
> 3x rpi2B
> 1x rpi3
>
> The rpis I treat (mainly) as single-purpose devices and for that they
> are (in my experience) very stable. The exception being the rpi3 which
> will be a (hardened) freebsd server for the internal network. Most of
> these pis are on 24/7. The pi3 is better suited than the pi2x for a
> server role. It would be worthwhile attaching a usb hd to the pi3 for  
> data.
>
> Although I've worn out a few microsd cards, I think that's been caused
> by my own ignorance in not allocating external media for a busy
> filesystem. All the pi hardware still works though, and I've had the
> pi2+ abd 2B since they came out.
>
> I've had one of the pi2Bs as a (32-bit) mail server running exim which
> failed because of my above mentioned ignorance. The pi3 runs hardenedBSD
> entirely in 64bit and seems very stable unless I thrash the microsd by
> installing ports and not exporting $WORKDIR to external (and easily
> replacable) media, like a usb stick.

My solution to this is a tmpfs mounted dir.
 from /etc/fstab:
tmpfs /tmp tmpfs rw,size=64M 0 0
tmpfs /var/tmp/ports-build tmpfs rw,size=512m 0 0

 from /etc/make.conf
WRKDIRPREFIX?=/var/tmp/ports-build

Most ports build within a couple of MBs, so there isn't anything written  
to disk during the build stage. Chances are high on my system something  
else which is unused is swapped out when needed (which is on an USB-stick).

Ronald.


>
> I haven't been able to get vanilla freebsd/aarch64 running on the rpi3  
> yet.
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Re: Durable/serious arm hardware ?

Paul Mather
In reply to this post by john smith-3
On Jan 22, 2017, at 5:19 AM, nowhere <[hidden email]> wrote:


> Hello
>
> I'd like to hear from the most skilled of you, if anybody knows serious arm based hardware or share this though : I'm becoming convinced that theses hardware (arm based) are just the consumable-smartphone fashion counterpart for kids and leisures or tests. Not really final and carefully finished products; abble to works for years or a decade; doing is job in a office corner, being forgotten  by anyone, like some of my older freebsd servers wich are running for a decade now.
>
>
> Those past years, I've bought 3 arm based devices :
>
> 1 raspberry-pi , which was affected by the "micron-ram-chip" bug: except with debian, it never booted on freebsd (I even tried netbsd): I just trashed it yesterday (bought in 2014 i think).
>
> 1 Beagleboneblack : works fine for weeks then freeze suddenly. And sometimes did not event reboot (*): had to loop-reset it until boot process go to the end. Seem the most "workable" product so far.. (bought in 2015)


I am not the most skilled of us, but, FWIW, you can get an "industrial" version of the BeagleBone Black.  That might be more rugged for your intended deployments.  See, e.g., http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/ELEMENT14-BBONE-BLACK-IND-4G-/83-17007

Cheers,

Paul.
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Re: Durable/serious arm hardware ?

Paul Mather
In reply to this post by tech-lists
On Jan 22, 2017, at 6:35 AM, tech-lists <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 22/01/2017 10:19, nowhere wrote:
>> 1 raspberry-pi , which was affected by the "micron-ram-chip" bug: except
>> with debian, it never booted on freebsd (I even tried netbsd): I just
>> trashed it yesterday (bought in 2014 i think).
>
> I have 5 rpi boards:
>
> 1x rpi2+
> 3x rpi2B
> 1x rpi3
>
[[...]]
> I've had one of the pi2Bs as a (32-bit) mail server running exim which
> failed because of my above mentioned ignorance. The pi3 runs hardenedBSD
> entirely in 64bit and seems very stable unless I thrash the microsd by
> installing ports and not exporting $WORKDIR to external (and easily
> replacable) media, like a usb stick.
>
> I haven't been able to get vanilla freebsd/aarch64 running on the rpi3 yet.


I'm just curious, but with the RPi 3 having only 1 GB of RAM, what is the compelling advantage in running it in 64-bit mode?  (I've heard that 64-bit applications can induce higher memory pressure.)  Is it a matter of providing a wide testing base for FreeBSD/arm64?

Cheers,

Paul.

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Re: Durable/serious arm hardware ?

Ian Lepore-3
In reply to this post by john smith-3
On Sun, 2017-01-22 at 11:19 +0100, nowhere wrote:

> Hello
>
> I'd like to hear from the most skilled of you, if anybody knows
> serious 
> arm based hardware or share this though : I'm becoming convinced
> that 
> theses hardware (arm based) are just the consumable-smartphone
> fashion 
> counterpart for kids and leisures or tests. Not really final and 
> carefully finished products; abble to works for years or a decade;
> doing 
> is job in a office corner, being forgotten  by anyone, like some of
> my 
> older freebsd servers wich are running for a decade now.
>
>
> Those past years, I've bought 3 arm based devices :
>
> 1 raspberry-pi , which was affected by the "micron-ram-chip" bug:
> except 
> with debian, it never booted on freebsd (I even tried netbsd): I
> just 
> trashed it yesterday (bought in 2014 i think).
>
> 1 Beagleboneblack : works fine for weeks then freeze suddenly. And 
> sometimes did not event reboot (*): had to loop-reset it until boot 
> process go to the end. Seem the most "workable" product so far..
> (bought 
> in 2015)
>
> 1 olimex a20-lime2-emmc: my most recent buy. It did not event boot
> with 
> network with it's own debian sd card... (I did not yet take time to
> make 
> it's own freebsd sd card): (bought in 2016-07).
>
> My goals, for example, with theses boards were to give some of my
> nomads 
> customers, a box with an autonomous dhcp/dns/vpn server on theyr 
> networks, without the need to change anything else than disabling
> their 
> dhcp servers for instance : I think a Quad xeon racked server is a
> bit 
> too much for theses tasks; I was using pfsence on pcengines boards 
> before to do this kind of things.
>
> Since my conclusions are based only on theses 3 boards, I'd like to
> hear 
> from thoses of you who works daily with these boards, and thoses
> opinion 
> are based on far more than my hand counted experiences.
>
>
> PM.
>
>
>
> (*) I work with a 5V/5A (25w) psu: that's not an overloaded psu
> problem; 
> Not a damaged emmc/sd card problem too: all my systems are 
> read-only-root based: seems to really be an hardware issue.
>

At $work we create commercial products running freebsd that have a 10
to 20 year (depending on the product) g'teed lifespan in the field.  We
used to use Atmel arm chips on custom-designed mainboards.  Now we use
primarily imx6 SOM modules from Technexion, SolidRun, and soon Boundary
Devices, along with our own custom-designed carrier boards.  The imx6
SOM modules are a bit higher-end than rpi or beaglebone boards.

I would say that basically you have to shop around a bit.  If you buy
ultra-cheap hobbyist hardware such as an rpi, you're going to get what
you pay for.  If you buy the higher-end hardware you can expect the
same kind of quality and lifespan you'd get from x86 hardware (which
doesn't tend to target the hobbyist market so much).

-- Ian
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Re: Durable/serious arm hardware ?

Russell Haley
In reply to this post by john smith-3
Sorry about the top post, my computer is in a box. 

Have you looked at the products from Netgate?‎ They are the sponsor for PFSense and Jim Thompson is somewhat regular on this list. They have new product based on an arm board, but also have some nice SOHO stuff based on low power x86 boards. ‎

As Ian pointed out there are dozens of manufacturers and many SOMs/SBC are not for consumers, but you need to be able to specify the hardware you want and order in bulk. Many have dev boards but good luck getting complete hardware support without some effort. 

That said,  I've had good luck with my solid run hummingboard (dev base board) and their SOM but there is much unsupported hardware still. They used to sell a case for it too. 

If this is for work, Netgate may be your best option because it will come with a warranty and all the rest. 

Russ

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Virgin Mobile network.


  Original Message  
From: nowhere
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 2:26 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Durable/serious arm hardware ?


Hello

I'd like to hear from the most skilled of you, if anybody knows serious
arm based hardware or share this though : I'm becoming convinced that
theses hardware (arm based) are just the consumable-smartphone fashion
counterpart for kids and leisures or tests. Not really final and
carefully finished products; abble to works for years or a decade; doing
is job in a office corner, being forgotten by anyone, like some of my
older freebsd servers wich are running for a decade now.


Those past years, I've bought 3 arm based devices :

1 raspberry-pi , which was affected by the "micron-ram-chip" bug: except
with debian, it never booted on freebsd (I even tried netbsd): I just
trashed it yesterday (bought in 2014 i think).

1 Beagleboneblack : works fine for weeks then freeze suddenly. And
sometimes did not event reboot (*): had to loop-reset it until boot
process go to the end. Seem the most "workable" product so far.. (bought
in 2015)

1 olimex a20-lime2-emmc: my most recent buy. It did not event boot with
network with it's own debian sd card... (I did not yet take time to make
it's own freebsd sd card): (bought in 2016-07).

My goals, for example, with theses boards were to give some of my nomads
customers, a box with an autonomous dhcp/dns/vpn server on theyr
networks, without the need to change anything else than disabling their
dhcp servers for instance : I think a Quad xeon racked server is a bit
too much for theses tasks; I was using pfsence on pcengines boards
before to do this kind of things.

Since my conclusions are based only on theses 3 boards, I'd like to hear
from thoses of you who works daily with these boards, and thoses opinion
are based on far more than my hand counted experiences.


PM.



(*) I work with a 5V/5A (25w) psu: that's not an overloaded psu problem;
Not a damaged emmc/sd card problem too: all my systems are
read-only-root based: seems to really be an hardware issue.




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Re: Durable/serious arm hardware ?

Hal Murray
In reply to this post by john smith-3

[hidden email] said:
> I have a number of RPI2 devices in production use running process-control
> type things and none of them has had stability problems.  I *have* had SD
> card issues on occasion, but that's not the machine itself..... of the RPI2s
> I've got in use I've had zero failures and no stability problems at all.

You can get in trouble if your power isn't solid.  Basically, using a micro
USB connector for power is a kludge.

The Adafruit wall warts are speced at 5.1 V for a little extra.  You can get
USB cables with heavier gauge wire.

If you steal power from a PC, the spec limit is 500 ma, and that only after
you negotiate.  Default is 100 ma.  So basically, all bets are off.

If you use one of the little USB inline power meters, that drops another 0.1
volt or so.

I had troubles with a cheap power cube.  It had 2 USB sockets.  I thought I
was going to save on outlets, but it was fat enough so that you couldn't put
2 of them next to each other in a power strip.  It worked at first, then it
aged or the software changed or ... Then the first Pi would die when I
plugged in the second one.  Drove me nuts for a while.
 
-------

Other than that, they work OK for me.  It I was planning to install one for
production, I'd pay a lot of attention to SD card life time.

For light load, the limiting factor on the uptime is updating the kernel.  (or wall power, or ...)



--
These are my opinions.  I hate spam.



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Re: Durable/serious arm hardware ?

Jim Thompson-6
In reply to this post by john smith-3
We have a little two port router based on the same SoC as the BBB.  I
selected that platform as one of the better supported platforms on
FreeBSD.  It still took a lot of (months of) work to make the freebsd (and
subsequently pfSense) for it into something that could be a "product".  All
the FreeBSD work is in the tree.  Most vendors don't do that. That's not a
humble brag, it's a statement of truth.

We're currently in discussions with a vendor to get the Ethernet driver for
our next ARM product, since, ..., it's not in the tree.

The SoC vendors all have Linux on the brain.  They see a much larger market
there. Convincing them to dedicate resources to FreeBSD can be challenging.
One of the things we've been able to do with pfSense is to show real volume
for a FreeBSD based application.  I can go to a SoC vendor (TI, Marvell,
etc) and talk about committing to, say, N x 10K+ unit volumes.  That tends
to help get their attention. The Foundation helps a lot here, too, which is
why I won't take "donations" for pfsense and instead direct people to
donate to the FreeBSD Foundation.

In closing, the board you name are all "developer / hobbyist" boards, and
may not have the level of engineering in them that it takes to make into a
product.  At least two of them are price-supported, where a non-profit gets
some portion of the BoM discounted, which makes for a very low-price board,
but also brings some short-cutting (try to get a warranty claim on a BBB or
RPi).

Jim


On Sunday, January 22, 2017, nowhere <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hello
>
> I'd like to hear from the most skilled of you, if anybody knows serious
> arm based hardware or share this though : I'm becoming convinced that
> theses hardware (arm based) are just the consumable-smartphone fashion
> counterpart for kids and leisures or tests. Not really final and carefully
> finished products; abble to works for years or a decade; doing is job in a
> office corner, being forgotten  by anyone, like some of my older freebsd
> servers wich are running for a decade now.
>
>
> Those past years, I've bought 3 arm based devices :
>
> 1 raspberry-pi , which was affected by the "micron-ram-chip" bug: except
> with debian, it never booted on freebsd (I even tried netbsd): I just
> trashed it yesterday (bought in 2014 i think).
>
> 1 Beagleboneblack : works fine for weeks then freeze suddenly. And
> sometimes did not event reboot (*): had to loop-reset it until boot process
> go to the end. Seem the most "workable" product so far.. (bought in 2015)
>
> 1 olimex a20-lime2-emmc: my most recent buy. It did not event boot with
> network with it's own debian sd card... (I did not yet take time to make
> it's own freebsd sd card): (bought in 2016-07).
>
> My goals, for example, with theses boards were to give some of my nomads
> customers, a box with an autonomous dhcp/dns/vpn server on theyr networks,
> without the need to change anything else than disabling their dhcp servers
> for instance : I think a Quad xeon racked server is a bit too much for
> theses tasks; I was using pfsence on pcengines boards before to do this
> kind of things.
>
> Since my conclusions are based only on theses 3 boards, I'd like to hear
> from thoses of you who works daily with these boards, and thoses opinion
> are based on far more than my hand counted experiences.
>
>
> PM.
>
>
>
> (*) I work with a 5V/5A (25w) psu: that's not an overloaded psu problem;
> Not a damaged emmc/sd card problem too: all my systems are read-only-root
> based: seems to really be an hardware issue.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arm
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"
>
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Re: Durable/serious arm hardware ?

tech-lists
In reply to this post by Paul Mather
On 22/01/2017 17:02, Paul Mather wrote:
> I'm just curious, but with the RPi 3 having only 1 GB of RAM, what is
> the compelling advantage in running it in 64-bit mode?  (I've heard
> that 64-bit applications can induce higher memory pressure.)  Is it a
> matter of providing a wide testing base for FreeBSD/arm64?

Sort of. I've started saving ports as packages if they successfully
build. It's still way faster than the rpi2B, even with only 1GB.

TBH, I've not 100% decided what eventual role it will have. If it had
4GB it'd be pressed into a server role and run 24/7

--
J.
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Re: Durable/serious arm hardware ?

Hagen Kühl-3
In reply to this post by Jim Thompson-6
On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 01:07:37 -0600
Jim Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We have a little two port router based on the same SoC as the BBB.  I
> selected that platform as one of the better supported platforms on
> FreeBSD.  It still took a lot of (months of) work to make the freebsd
> (and subsequently pfSense) for it into something that could be a
> "product".  All the FreeBSD work is in the tree.  Most vendors don't
> do that. That's not a humble brag, it's a statement of truth.
>
> We're currently in discussions with a vendor to get the Ethernet
> driver for our next ARM product, since, ..., it's not in the tree.

It's great that you're doing this work, especially committing it back
into the tree.

What I would also be interested in, is a solution for an ARM based
wireless access point running FreeBSD. Right now I have one of my
Raspberry Pis set up to do it, but the wireless performance leaves
something to be desired.

Do you have any tips on what to use for that?

> The SoC vendors all have Linux on the brain.  They see a much larger
> market there. Convincing them to dedicate resources to FreeBSD can be
> challenging. One of the things we've been able to do with pfSense is
> to show real volume for a FreeBSD based application.  I can go to a
> SoC vendor (TI, Marvell, etc) and talk about committing to, say, N x
> 10K+ unit volumes.  That tends to help get their attention. The
> Foundation helps a lot here, too, which is why I won't take
> "donations" for pfsense and instead direct people to donate to the
> FreeBSD Foundation.
>
> In closing, the board you name are all "developer / hobbyist" boards,
> and may not have the level of engineering in them that it takes to
> make into a product.  At least two of them are price-supported, where
> a non-profit gets some portion of the BoM discounted, which makes for
> a very low-price board, but also brings some short-cutting (try to
> get a warranty claim on a BBB or RPi).
>
> Jim
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Re: Durable/serious arm hardware ?

Jim Thompson-6
On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Hagen Kühl <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 01:07:37 -0600

> Do you have any tips on what to use for that?

This isn't -vendors.

Think: summer.
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Re: Durable/serious arm hardware ?

Bernd Walter-4
In reply to this post by Hagen Kühl-3
On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 09:12:01PM +0100, Hagen Kühl wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 01:07:37 -0600
> Jim Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > We have a little two port router based on the same SoC as the BBB.  I
> > selected that platform as one of the better supported platforms on
> > FreeBSD.  It still took a lot of (months of) work to make the freebsd
> > (and subsequently pfSense) for it into something that could be a
> > "product".  All the FreeBSD work is in the tree.  Most vendors don't
> > do that. That's not a humble brag, it's a statement of truth.
> >
> > We're currently in discussions with a vendor to get the Ethernet
> > driver for our next ARM product, since, ..., it's not in the tree.
>
> It's great that you're doing this work, especially committing it back
> into the tree.
>
> What I would also be interested in, is a solution for an ARM based
> wireless access point running FreeBSD. Right now I have one of my
> Raspberry Pis set up to do it, but the wireless performance leaves
> something to be desired.
>
> Do you have any tips on what to use for that?

I wished we had PCI-Express support for the iMX6.
A Novena Board (probably not easy to source in the long run), or a
Technexion board have Mini-PCIe slots in which you can fit WiFi cards.
SDIO-WiFi (unsupported right now) and USB-WiFi are not the best
solutions for various reasons.

On the other hand, if you can live with the mass storage constrained
MIPS based Atheros SoCs you end up with many good options.
The only downside is that running / on USB stick turned out to be
unrelyable for unknown reasons on any Atheros SoC based board I've tested.

> > The SoC vendors all have Linux on the brain.  They see a much larger
> > market there. Convincing them to dedicate resources to FreeBSD can be
> > challenging. One of the things we've been able to do with pfSense is
> > to show real volume for a FreeBSD based application.  I can go to a
> > SoC vendor (TI, Marvell, etc) and talk about committing to, say, N x
> > 10K+ unit volumes.  That tends to help get their attention. The
> > Foundation helps a lot here, too, which is why I won't take
> > "donations" for pfsense and instead direct people to donate to the
> > FreeBSD Foundation.
> >
> > In closing, the board you name are all "developer / hobbyist" boards,
> > and may not have the level of engineering in them that it takes to
> > make into a product.  At least two of them are price-supported, where
> > a non-profit gets some portion of the BoM discounted, which makes for
> > a very low-price board, but also brings some short-cutting (try to
> > get a warranty claim on a BBB or RPi).
> >
> > Jim
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

--
B.Walter <[hidden email]> http://www.bwct.de
Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm.
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Re: Durable/serious arm hardware ?

Russell Haley
On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 11:46 AM, Bernd Walter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 09:12:01PM +0100, Hagen Kühl wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2017 01:07:37 -0600
>> Jim Thompson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > We have a little two port router based on the same SoC as the BBB.  I
>> > selected that platform as one of the better supported platforms on
>> > FreeBSD.  It still took a lot of (months of) work to make the freebsd
>> > (and subsequently pfSense) for it into something that could be a
>> > "product".  All the FreeBSD work is in the tree.  Most vendors don't
>> > do that. That's not a humble brag, it's a statement of truth.
>> >
>> > We're currently in discussions with a vendor to get the Ethernet
>> > driver for our next ARM product, since, ..., it's not in the tree.
>>
>> It's great that you're doing this work, especially committing it back
>> into the tree.
>>
>> What I would also be interested in, is a solution for an ARM based
>> wireless access point running FreeBSD. Right now I have one of my
>> Raspberry Pis set up to do it, but the wireless performance leaves
>> something to be desired.
>>
>> Do you have any tips on what to use for that?
>
> I wished we had PCI-Express support for the iMX6.
> A Novena Board (probably not easy to source in the long run), or a
> Technexion board have Mini-PCIe slots in which you can fit WiFi cards.
> SDIO-WiFi (unsupported right now) and USB-WiFi are not the best
> solutions for various reasons.

There are a few good iMX6 boards out there. There are quite a few
things not supported unfortunately.

<notice of amateurs opinion>
SDIO wifi seems to be very common now, with quite a few chip vendors
using it (But Mr. Chadd would be a better person to verify that).
Using SDIO saves a PCIe or USB slot and can more than support 802.11n
for throughput (from my understanding).
</notice of amateurs opinion>

The SDIO driver is in the dev tree, but Mr. Losh seems to be working
on the arguably higher priority u-boot fragmentation. On a personal
note, I just moved into a house and may soon have a spare room for a
lab and some time to try and help out with SDIO or iMX6 stuff. Here's
to wishful thinking! ;)

Russ

> On the other hand, if you can live with the mass storage constrained
> MIPS based Atheros SoCs you end up with many good options.
> The only downside is that running / on USB stick turned out to be
> unrelyable for unknown reasons on any Atheros SoC based board I've tested.
>
>> > The SoC vendors all have Linux on the brain.  They see a much larger
>> > market there. Convincing them to dedicate resources to FreeBSD can be
>> > challenging. One of the things we've been able to do with pfSense is
>> > to show real volume for a FreeBSD based application.  I can go to a
>> > SoC vendor (TI, Marvell, etc) and talk about committing to, say, N x
>> > 10K+ unit volumes.  That tends to help get their attention. The
>> > Foundation helps a lot here, too, which is why I won't take
>> > "donations" for pfsense and instead direct people to donate to the
>> > FreeBSD Foundation.
>> >
>> > In closing, the board you name are all "developer / hobbyist" boards,
>> > and may not have the level of engineering in them that it takes to
>> > make into a product.  At least two of them are price-supported, where
>> > a non-profit gets some portion of the BoM discounted, which makes for
>> > a very low-price board, but also brings some short-cutting (try to
>> > get a warranty claim on a BBB or RPi).
>> >
>> > Jim
>> _______________________________________________
>> [hidden email] mailing list
>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arm
>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"
>
> --
> B.Walter <[hidden email]> http://www.bwct.de
> Modbus/TCP Ethernet I/O Baugruppen, ARM basierte FreeBSD Rechner uvm.
> _______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arm
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"
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