Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

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Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

Vladimir Botka-5
Hi,

On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 07:40:48 +0100
Franco Fichtner <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > On 4. Mar 2018, at 10:02 PM, Jeff Roberson <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I would urge everyone to be calm and patient.  This is an important dialog and it's bound to be bumpy.  I also strongly urge people to refrain from discussing it further on technical lists where it is counter productive and unwelcome.  

> So you are saying "shut up" and be patient like we've never been patient in
> the last couple of years?  That's bold, but unfortunately also consistent MO.
> Cheers,
> Franco

He said you should refrain from discussing it on technical lists. You might
want to consider freebsd-chat.

        -vlado

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Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

Jeff Roberson-2

On Mon, 5 Mar 2018, Vladimir Botka wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 07:40:48 +0100
> Franco Fichtner <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>> On 4. Mar 2018, at 10:02 PM, Jeff Roberson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I would urge everyone to be calm and patient.  This is an important dialog and it's bound to be bumpy.  I also strongly urge people to refrain from discussing it further on technical lists where it is counter productive and unwelcome.
>
>> So you are saying "shut up" and be patient like we've never been patient in
>> the last couple of years?  That's bold, but unfortunately also consistent MO.
>> Cheers,
>> Franco
>
> He said you should refrain from discussing it on technical lists. You might
> want to consider freebsd-chat.

Thank you.  Chat seems like an ok list for this until we're told otherwise
by administrators.  I am not personally subscribed to -chat so please keep
me in the cc if you wish to keep hearing from me.  I urge again that we
refrain from inflammatory language and hyperbole.

I'm sorry that people are frustrated.  I not infrequently find the project
frustrating.  My urge for patience is because this dialog is very fresh
and still being worked out.  Whatever else you have been patient for we
have only had the new coc for less than a month.  I think there are some
misconceptions about how the project is run and what the core team does
that might help clear up some confusion.

Firstly, the project is governed by its members.  These are people with a
vested interest who have contributed to the project.  We are not governed
by the users.  The conversation is challenging enough with nearly 400
participants.  I assure you that whatever your view point is, it is likely
already represented in that 400.  If you would like to be part of the
conversation I urge you to work on obtaining a commit bit.  I will also
assure you that various project members are in touch with the community
via reddit, slashdot, freebsd forums, freebsd mailing lists, twitter, etc.
It can be challenging to determine who is a legitimate part of the
community and who is an outside interloper capitalizing on a political
moment, for this reason among many, we are self-governing.

Core is an administrative group elected from volunteers.  It is not their
responsibility to set priorities for technical development, accept
patches, or even strictly speaking be community liaisons.  We might hope
that they take on some of these mantles of their own volition but that is
up to the individual.  Their charter is more or less administrative work,
governance.

Regarding patches, I don't know what subsystem they involve or if there is
an active maintainer or what steps you've taken.  It is all frustratingly
ad-hoc at times as it is a volunteer effort and it's up to individuals to
take up these responsibilities.  I again urge everyone who can contribute
and maintain a standard of civil discussion to seek a commit bit.
Contribution to FreeBSD can be both personally and professionally
rewarding.

Regards,
Jeff

>
> -vlado
>
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Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

SATAN PIRATE EXTRA
>It can be challenging to determine who is a legitimate part of the
community and who is an outside interloper capitalizing on a political
moment
I think this is the heart of the issue. It's interesting how there was all
this discussion about the CoC heading in this direction all over the
mailing lists, on twitter, etc, and only now that it's been imposed, are
all these opponents coming out of the woodwork saying they were never asked.

We get all these comments about how the new CoC encourages feminism
(protip: anyone who instantly bristles at the term probably lack an
understanding of it) and enforces a bunch of, in their opinions,
non-issues. But they were issues. That's why the CoC had to change.

As far as I can tell, the new CoC only discourages the kinds of speech that
never had any business being in any discussion of FreeBSD, or any technical
project, in the first place. It's kind of a shame we got caught up this
whole discussion, but I guess it goes to show that it was never about
ethics in games journalism.
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Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

geheimnisse hier
In reply to this post by Vladimir Botka-5
I really cannot wait until all of the people flipping their shit about the new CoC go back to not tending to their neck hair and tipping their fedoras. Oh, excuse me, trilby hats or whatever they may be.

Seriously, the new CoC is the opposite of news. Unless you plan to harrass others online, it will not affect you. Go back to doing whatever it is you were doing before you went on this crusade. Nobody cares aside from a handful of neckbeards, and nobody will care in a couple of weeks because it won't affect anything.

Mailed under an a pseudonym account because these alt-right types like to stalk and harrass people.
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Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

Sander Vesik
In reply to this post by Vladimir Botka-5
> Jesus Christ, can you stop being such a complete faggot. People like you
> are causing a mockery of FreeBSD, which is now getting called "CuckBSD" by
> the very people you want to be using this OS


Well, no, I am fairly certain you are wrong on this part.
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Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

freebsd-chat mailing list
In reply to this post by Vladimir Botka-5
> Jesus Christ, can you stop being such a complete f****t. People like you are causing a mockery of FreeBSD, which is now getting called "CuckBSD" by the very people you want to be using this OS.

You post is so over the top that I can't even tell if you're really this terrible or just a classical troll play-acting someone like that to start a flame war.  In any case, you are causing nothing but damage.

Go away,
- Fiorello

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On March 8, 2018 9:34 AM, Geheimnisse <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jesus Christ, can you stop being such a complete faggot. People like you are causing a mockery of FreeBSD, which is now getting called "CuckBSD" by the very people you want to be using this OS. It's fucking embarrassing and has all but signaled to a majority of users that there is a preference for progressive decay over technical progress. Do you realize shit like does nothing but red pill normal, accepting individuals who truly just care about technical merit? You care creating the very enemies you seek. And you will ultimately lose. But please, keep insulting us.
>
> Oh, mailed under your pseudonym account because we alt-right types like to stalk and harrass people.
>
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:31 PM, Geheimnisse [hidden email] wrote:
>
> > Received: from dunkelheit (\[23.226.128.30\])
> >
> > From: Geheimnisse [hidden email]
> >
> > Subject: Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem
> >
> > Message-ID: <@dunkelheit>
> >
> > References: <@lonesome.com> ><@fire.js.berklix.net>
> >
> > In-Reply-To: <@fire.js.berklix.net>
> >
> > User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.3 (2018-01-21)
>
> > I really cannot wait until all of the people flipping their shit about the new CoC go back to not tending to their neck hair and tipping their fedoras. Oh, excuse me, trilby hats or whatever they may be.
> >
> > Seriously, the new CoC is the opposite of news. Unless you plan to harrass others online, it will not affect you. Go back to doing whatever it is you were doing before you went on this crusade. Nobody cares aside from a handful of neckbeards, and nobody will care in a couple of weeks because it won't affect anything.
> >
> > Mailed under an a pseudonym account because these alt-right types like to stalk and harrass people.
> >
> > [hidden email] mailing list
> >
> > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"
>
> [hidden email] mailing list
>
> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
>
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"


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Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

freebsd-chat mailing list
In reply to this post by geheimnisse hier
> I really cannot wait until all of the people flipping their shit about the new CoC go back to not tending to their neck hair and tipping their fedoras. Oh, excuse me, trilby hats or whatever they may be.
>
> .... Nobody cares aside from a handful of neckbeards, and nobody will care in a couple of weeks because it won't affect anything.

Your comments should run afoul of *any* reasonable CoC.  They are pure contempt of a strawman and have no substance.  They have no place here.

- Fiorello

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On March 7, 2018 8:31 PM, Geheimnisse <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I really cannot wait until all of the people flipping their shit about the new CoC go back to not tending to their neck hair and tipping their fedoras. Oh, excuse me, trilby hats or whatever they may be.
>
> Seriously, the new CoC is the opposite of news. Unless you plan to harrass others online, it will not affect you. Go back to doing whatever it is you were doing before you went on this crusade. Nobody cares aside from a handful of neckbeards, and nobody will care in a couple of weeks because it won't affect anything.
>
> Mailed under an a pseudonym account because these alt-right types like to stalk and harrass people.
>
> [hidden email] mailing list
>
> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
>
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"


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Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

geheimnisse hier
In reply to this post by Vladimir Botka-5
Nope, Not a troll. Just protecting myself from alt-right creeps.

Let's see, where to begin? Unironically using the term "cuck" as in "CuckBSD". Check. Unironically using the term "red pill". Check.

Both of which are exclusively part of the alt-right lexicon.

So, FreeBSD may have a politics problem - an alt-right politics problem. Manchildren who cry any time something happens that isn't right-wing. They don't want "politics out of FreeBSD" regarding the CoC, they want a CoC that aligns with their alt-right values.

In conclusion, the alt-right can shut the hell up and move on to their next target. Leave FreeBSD alone, you neckbeard creeps.
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RE: FreeBSD has a politics problem

Paige Thompson-2
In reply to this post by SATAN PIRATE EXTRA
Hey,

I just gotta say I'm getting a kick out of watching you all have this conversation. This is really happening. LOL

Keep up the good work

-Paige


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Lazlo Falconi
Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 11:42 AM
To: Jeff Roberson <[hidden email]>
Cc: Franco Fichtner <[hidden email]>; Vladimir Botka <[hidden email]>; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

>It can be challenging to determine who is a legitimate part of the
community and who is an outside interloper capitalizing on a political moment I think this is the heart of the issue. It's interesting how there was all this discussion about the CoC heading in this direction all over the mailing lists, on twitter, etc, and only now that it's been imposed, are all these opponents coming out of the woodwork saying they were never asked.

We get all these comments about how the new CoC encourages feminism
(protip: anyone who instantly bristles at the term probably lack an understanding of it) and enforces a bunch of, in their opinions, non-issues. But they were issues. That's why the CoC had to change.

As far as I can tell, the new CoC only discourages the kinds of speech that never had any business being in any discussion of FreeBSD, or any technical project, in the first place. It's kind of a shame we got caught up this whole discussion, but I guess it goes to show that it was never about ethics in games journalism.
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Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

Tom Limoncelli
In reply to this post by geheimnisse hier
Sing it, Geheimnisse!


Tom


On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 9:31 PM Geheimnisse <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I really cannot wait until all of the people flipping their shit about the
> new CoC go back to not tending to their neck hair and tipping their
> fedoras. Oh, excuse me, trilby hats or whatever they may be.
>
> Seriously, the new CoC is the opposite of news. Unless you plan to harrass
> others online, it will not affect you. Go back to doing whatever it is you
> were doing before you went on this crusade. Nobody cares aside from a
> handful of neckbeards, and nobody will care in a couple of weeks because it
> won't affect anything.
>
> Mailed under an a pseudonym account because these alt-right types like to
> stalk and harrass people.
> _______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"
>
--
Sent from Gmail Mobile. Autocorrect is my co-author.
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Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

freebsd-chat mailing list
In reply to this post by geheimnisse hier
On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 14:31:28 -0500, Geheimnisse wrote:
>So, FreeBSD may have a politics problem - an alt-right politics
>problem. Manchildren who cry any time something happens that isn't
>right-wing. They don't want "politics out of FreeBSD" regarding the
>CoC, they want a CoC that aligns with their alt-right values.
>
>In conclusion, the alt-right can shut the hell up and move on to their
>next target. Leave FreeBSD alone, you neckbeard creeps.

Those world conspiracy fantasis are touching
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law , something that much,
much, much, much, much more often happens on computer related mailing
lists than racism, misogyny, xenophobia etc. apears, but
Godwin's law usually is uesed regarding technically decisions, a
developer e.g. is in favour of a hamburger button over a menubar or
vice versa and a user compares this with the Holocaust.

--
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