Vivaldi Tablet

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Vivaldi Tablet

Skippy 311
With a large portion of the open source community looking towards the
Vivaldi Tablet as the push for mobile linux, I was curious if there was any
plans to make an official push to put something together for this tablet.
It is alot to ask from FreeBSD, but to put it bluntly, the more this tablet
can offer the better it will be. Support from FreeBSD on this tablet would
be a wonderful addition to the community being built around this tablet,
and I hope to see FreeBSD on board in the near future.

-John Kelley (Skippy) @ Opentablets.org
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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Da Rock-3
On 03/26/12 06:49, Skippy 311 wrote:
> With a large portion of the open source community looking towards the
> Vivaldi Tablet as the push for mobile linux,
The site reminds me of someone organising a large party and no one
showing up :)
> I was curious if there was any
> plans to make an official push to put something together for this tablet.
> It is alot to ask from FreeBSD, but to put it bluntly, the more this tablet
> can offer the better it will be. Support from FreeBSD on this tablet would
> be a wonderful addition to the community being built around this tablet,
> and I hope to see FreeBSD on board in the near future.
FreeBSD on a tablet would be an interesting idea. Not sure about this
one though... Looks like one of those ones going on eBay for $50. You
can always grab one of those and hack it to run FBSD.

Perhaps this should go to embedded though?
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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Jerome Herman
On 26/03/2012 01:29, Da Rock wrote:
> On 03/26/12 06:49, Skippy 311 wrote:
>> With a large portion of the open source community looking towards the
>> Vivaldi Tablet as the push for mobile linux,
> The site reminds me of someone organising a large party and no one
> showing up :)

Indeed, I felt very alone going there too.

>> I was curious if there was any
>> plans to make an official push to put something together for this
>> tablet.
>> It is alot to ask from FreeBSD, but to put it bluntly, the more this
>> tablet
>> can offer the better it will be. Support from FreeBSD on this tablet
>> would
>> be a wonderful addition to the community being built around this tablet,
>> and I hope to see FreeBSD on board in the near future.
> FreeBSD on a tablet would be an interesting idea. Not sure about this
> one though... Looks like one of those ones going on eBay for $50. You
> can always grab one of those and hack it to run FBSD.

The main problem (though it is actually a FreeBSD strength) is that most
FreeBSD dev code to solve their own problems. I don not think I am wrong
when I say that a vast majority of FreeBSD contributor are also heavy
users of the functionalities they code.
So the question is "Are there enough FreeBSD dev that see any kind of
interest in having a tablet ?". Personally I still don't, even though
quite a lot of people tried to explain it to me.
Also the site lacks the main thing that could get the FreeBSD community
on the spot : specs. I managed to learn it was a 1ghz ARM with 512MB ram
and 4GB storage, and that is about it. Arm architecture being what it is
(basically whatever the constructor decided to use at that moment with
no standard as to how he did it) there is absolutely no way to start any
kind of port short of reverse engeniring the linux version.  My personal
opinion is "not worth the trouble".

>
> Perhaps this should go to embedded though?
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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Robert Bonomi
Jerome Herman wrote:
> On 26/03/2012 01:29, Da Rock wrote:
> > On 03/26/12 06:49, Skippy 311 wrote:
> >> With a large portion of the open source community looking towards the
> >> Vivaldi Tablet as the push for mobile linux,
> > The site reminds me of someone organising a large party and no one
> > showing up :)
>
> Indeed, I felt very alone going there too.

yuppers.

> >> I was curious if there was any
> >> plans to make an official push to put something together for this
> >> tablet.

Considering that FreeBS positions itself 'primrily' as a _server_ OS,
I would suggest that it is 'unlikely'.

*I*, for one, would hope that porting to the 'Rasberry Pi' has higher
priority.

Now, if "somebody" in the 'Vivaldi' community wants to gather up _all_
the relevant 'technical data' for configuring/accessing/programming *ALL*
the included hardware, and -publish- it in one EASILY ACCESSIBLE place,
that would be a good start.

If such a "somebody" were to _also_ provide 'funding' for a porting project,
that would undoubtedly move such a project to a high position on the 'to do'
list'.

Otherwise, "Skippy", you, -YOURSELF-.  will need to find a 'guru' with the
appropriate knowledge/skills *and* "enough interest' in the project to
tackle it.

Good Luck.

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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Da Rock-3
In reply to this post by Jerome Herman
On 03/26/12 09:39, Jerome Herman wrote:

> On 26/03/2012 01:29, Da Rock wrote:
>> On 03/26/12 06:49, Skippy 311 wrote:
>>> With a large portion of the open source community looking towards the
>>> Vivaldi Tablet as the push for mobile linux,
>> The site reminds me of someone organising a large party and no one
>> showing up :)
>
> Indeed, I felt very alone going there too.
>
>>> I was curious if there was any
>>> plans to make an official push to put something together for this
>>> tablet.
>>> It is alot to ask from FreeBSD, but to put it bluntly, the more this
>>> tablet
>>> can offer the better it will be. Support from FreeBSD on this tablet
>>> would
>>> be a wonderful addition to the community being built around this
>>> tablet,
>>> and I hope to see FreeBSD on board in the near future.
>> FreeBSD on a tablet would be an interesting idea. Not sure about this
>> one though... Looks like one of those ones going on eBay for $50. You
>> can always grab one of those and hack it to run FBSD.
>
> The main problem (though it is actually a FreeBSD strength) is that
> most FreeBSD dev code to solve their own problems. I don not think I
> am wrong when I say that a vast majority of FreeBSD contributor are
> also heavy users of the functionalities they code.
> So the question is "Are there enough FreeBSD dev that see any kind of
> interest in having a tablet ?". Personally I still don't, even though
> quite a lot of people tried to explain it to me.
> Also the site lacks the main thing that could get the FreeBSD
> community on the spot : specs. I managed to learn it was a 1ghz ARM
> with 512MB ram and 4GB storage, and that is about it. Arm architecture
> being what it is (basically whatever the constructor decided to use at
> that moment with no standard as to how he did it) there is absolutely
> no way to start any kind of port short of reverse engeniring the linux
> version.  My personal opinion is "not worth the trouble".
I'm still weighing up the options, but I would. A few barriers to
surmount though...

>
>>
>> Perhaps this should go to embedded though?
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
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>
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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Chad Perrin
In reply to this post by Robert Bonomi
On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 07:21:51PM -0500, Robert Bonomi wrote:
>
> Considering that FreeBS positions itself 'primrily' as a _server_ OS,
> I would suggest that it is 'unlikely'.

I suppose iXsystems and the PC-BSD project might be a place to send out
feelers as well, being more interested in end-user stuff than the pretty
server-sysadmin heavy crowd here.  There are a lot of people in this
community interested in more than just servers, though, so I don't see
why the fact FreeBSD is good for servers should be an impediment to
seeking out people with an interest in tablet ports.


>
> *I*, for one, would hope that porting to the 'Rasberry Pi' has higher
> priority.

So would I.  If someone decided to tackle the Vivaldi platform, though, I
wouldn't complain.


>
> Now, if "somebody" in the 'Vivaldi' community wants to gather up _all_
> the relevant 'technical data' for configuring/accessing/programming *ALL*
> the included hardware, and -publish- it in one EASILY ACCESSIBLE place,
> that would be a good start.

This might be a start:

    http://opentablets.org/page/index.html/_/news/makeplaylive-sparknow-vivaldi-zenithink-c71-r13


>
> If such a "somebody" were to _also_ provide 'funding' for a porting project,
> that would undoubtedly move such a project to a high position on the 'to do'
> list'.
>
> Otherwise, "Skippy", you, -YOURSELF-.  will need to find a 'guru' with the
> appropriate knowledge/skills *and* "enough interest' in the project to
> tackle it.

I think the point of the initial email to start this thread was to see if
there were people in the community with an interest in working on this
project, and might actually be a fairly logical step toward an effort to
"find a 'guru'" to work on it.

--
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Da Rock-3
On 03/27/12 01:42, Chad Perrin wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 07:21:51PM -0500, Robert Bonomi wrote:
>> Considering that FreeBS positions itself 'primrily' as a _server_ OS,
>> I would suggest that it is 'unlikely'.
> I suppose iXsystems and the PC-BSD project might be a place to send out
> feelers as well, being more interested in end-user stuff than the pretty
> server-sysadmin heavy crowd here.  There are a lot of people in this
> community interested in more than just servers, though, so I don't see
> why the fact FreeBSD is good for servers should be an impediment to
> seeking out people with an interest in tablet ports.
>
>
>> *I*, for one, would hope that porting to the 'Rasberry Pi' has higher
>> priority.
> So would I.  If someone decided to tackle the Vivaldi platform, though, I
> wouldn't complain.
>
>
>> Now, if "somebody" in the 'Vivaldi' community wants to gather up _all_
>> the relevant 'technical data' for configuring/accessing/programming *ALL*
>> the included hardware, and -publish- it in one EASILY ACCESSIBLE place,
>> that would be a good start.
> This might be a start:
>
>      http://opentablets.org/page/index.html/_/news/makeplaylive-sparknow-vivaldi-zenithink-c71-r13
>
>
>> If such a "somebody" were to _also_ provide 'funding' for a porting project,
>> that would undoubtedly move such a project to a high position on the 'to do'
>> list'.
>>
>> Otherwise, "Skippy", you, -YOURSELF-.  will need to find a 'guru' with the
>> appropriate knowledge/skills *and* "enough interest' in the project to
>> tackle it.
> I think the point of the initial email to start this thread was to see if
> there were people in the community with an interest in working on this
> project, and might actually be a fairly logical step toward an effort to
> "find a 'guru'" to work on it.
Actually I think the point of the email was to prop up the member
numbers on the site. The platform itself is just an ordinary aPad which
can be hacked. As for the open source community interest, well it
already runs linux natively- android- so not entirely sure what the fuss
is about (might explain the population there).

If anyone was interested in porting FreeBSD to tablets there are plenty
of dev kits out there to play with; and if the cost is excessive then
grab an aPad off eBay for $50.

To explain the major hurdle in porting to a tablet, you'd need to
probably find an alternative windowing solution then Xorg (low memory,
especially in vivaldi)- I'm not 100% sure what iOS and Android use.
Might be interesting...
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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Chad Perrin
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 09:07:25AM +1000, Da Rock wrote:

> On 03/27/12 01:42, Chad Perrin wrote:
> >
> >I think the point of the initial email to start this thread was to see if
> >there were people in the community with an interest in working on this
> >project, and might actually be a fairly logical step toward an effort to
> >"find a 'guru'" to work on it.
>
> Actually I think the point of the email was to prop up the member
> numbers on the site. The platform itself is just an ordinary aPad
> which can be hacked. As for the open source community interest, well
> it already runs linux natively- android- so not entirely sure what
> the fuss is about (might explain the population there).

Android is not the same as a full-featured Unix-like OS.  It's a
miserably underpowered half-measure, whose only redeeming feature is that
it's not Apple iOS or MS WP7.  There's a bit of a difference, there.

. . . not that I much care about tablets per se, right now, though it
would be nice if I could get a ThinkPad X-series tablet-laptop working
with FreeBSD.  I just wouldn't equate Android with a general-purpose
Unix-like OS, even if that OS uses a Linux kernel and gets most of the
userland subtly wrong.


>
> If anyone was interested in porting FreeBSD to tablets there are
> plenty of dev kits out there to play with; and if the cost is
> excessive then grab an aPad off eBay for $50.

I'm not sure how that disputes what I said.


>
> To explain the major hurdle in porting to a tablet, you'd need to
> probably find an alternative windowing solution then Xorg (low
> memory, especially in vivaldi)- I'm not 100% sure what iOS and
> Android use. Might be interesting...

Yeah, there could be some real challenges there.  The question is whether
someone with the wherewithal to do the work would find the challenge
attractive.

--
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Da Rock-3
On 03/27/12 09:29, Chad Perrin wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 09:07:25AM +1000, Da Rock wrote:
>> On 03/27/12 01:42, Chad Perrin wrote:
>>> I think the point of the initial email to start this thread was to see if
>>> there were people in the community with an interest in working on this
>>> project, and might actually be a fairly logical step toward an effort to
>>> "find a 'guru'" to work on it.
>> Actually I think the point of the email was to prop up the member
>> numbers on the site. The platform itself is just an ordinary aPad
>> which can be hacked. As for the open source community interest, well
>> it already runs linux natively- android- so not entirely sure what
>> the fuss is about (might explain the population there).
> Android is not the same as a full-featured Unix-like OS.  It's a
> miserably underpowered half-measure, whose only redeeming feature is that
> it's not Apple iOS or MS WP7.  There's a bit of a difference, there.
>
> . . . not that I much care about tablets per se, right now, though it
> would be nice if I could get a ThinkPad X-series tablet-laptop working
> with FreeBSD.  I just wouldn't equate Android with a general-purpose
> Unix-like OS, even if that OS uses a Linux kernel and gets most of the
> userland subtly wrong.
LOL. Thats my issue exactly, but its handy for a smartphone...

It does make me wonder what a FBSD version of a similar appliance would
be like?
>
>
>> If anyone was interested in porting FreeBSD to tablets there are
>> plenty of dev kits out there to play with; and if the cost is
>> excessive then grab an aPad off eBay for $50.
> I'm not sure how that disputes what I said.
It wasn't. More to dispute what the OP said actually :)

>
>
>> To explain the major hurdle in porting to a tablet, you'd need to
>> probably find an alternative windowing solution then Xorg (low
>> memory, especially in vivaldi)- I'm not 100% sure what iOS and
>> Android use. Might be interesting...
> Yeah, there could be some real challenges there.  The question is whether
> someone with the wherewithal to do the work would find the challenge
> attractive.
>
I would... time is the issue though. This is a long term goal.
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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Da Rock-3
In reply to this post by Da Rock-3
On 03/27/12 09:32, Chuck Swiger wrote:
> On Mar 26, 2012, at 4:07 PM, Da Rock wrote:
>> To explain the major hurdle in porting to a tablet, you'd need to probably find an alternative windowing solution then Xorg (low memory, especially in vivaldi)- I'm not 100% sure what iOS and Android use.
> iOS uses a descendant of the Display PostScript WindowServer from NEXTSTEP, although the locals have switched over to Core Graphics with Quartz as the 2D compositing engine [1], along with OpenGL ES for 3D.
Interesting... Android would be using something else obviously FOSS.
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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Gary Kline-5
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 11:28:50AM +1000, Da Rock wrote:

> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:28:50 +1000
> From: Da Rock <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet
> To: Chuck Swiger <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
>
> On 03/27/12 09:32, Chuck Swiger wrote:
> >On Mar 26, 2012, at 4:07 PM, Da Rock wrote:
> >>To explain the major hurdle in porting to a tablet, you'd need to probably find an alternative windowing solution then Xorg (low memory, especially in vivaldi)- I'm not 100% sure what iOS and Android use.
> >iOS uses a descendant of the Display PostScript WindowServer from NEXTSTEP, although the locals have switched over to Core Graphics with Quartz as the 2D compositing engine [1], along with OpenGL ES for 3D.
> Interesting... Android would be using something else obviously FOSS.


        you guys have any thoughts about a tiny {7"} keyboard
        plugin?  i'm wondering if my VBC project might work with
        this tablet.  i've never seen a keyboard that small.  nice
        tablet, tho.

        gary

        PS: i keep looking for tablets with a real keyboard.  not
        very much.  So far... .

> _______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"

--
 Gary Kline  [hidden email]  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
     Voice By Computer (for Universal Access): http:/www.thought.org/vbc
          The 8.57a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org
             Twenty-five years of service to the Unix community.

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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Open Slate
Jumping in a bit late. I have had a goal of FreeBSD on a slate/tablet
computer for roughly ten years. The comments in this thread echo my
experience. Put simply, the primary focus of FreeBSD has been as a server.
The Gnome team has worked hard to bring the OS to the desktop, with limited
success.

There are many things required before my slate concept can be realized.

    o power management
    o pen digitizer interface
    o HWR
    o pen friendly UI comparable to Newton OS
    o components that support a self-made (maker) approach to the hardware

I still hold on to my goal. No telling when enough people will get
interested.

On Mar 27, 2012 9:46 AM, "Gary Kline" <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 11:28:50AM +1000, Da Rock wrote:
> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:28:50 +1000
> From: Da Rock <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet
> To: Chuck Swiger <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]

>
> On 03/27/12 09:32, Chuck Swiger wrote:
> >On Mar 26, 2012, at 4:07 PM, Da Rock wrote:
> >>To ex...
       you guys have any thoughts about a tiny {7"} keyboard
       plugin?  i'm wondering if my VBC project might work with
       this tablet.  i've never seen a keyboard that small.  nice
       tablet, tho.

       gary

       PS: i keep looking for tablets with a real keyboard.  not
       very much.  So far... .


> _______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> ht...
--
 Gary Kline  [hidden email]  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
    Voice By Computer (for Universal Access): http:/www.thought.org/vbc
         The 8.57a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org
            Twenty-five years of service to the Unix community.


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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Chad Perrin
In reply to this post by Gary Kline-5
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 12:40:17PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote:
>
> you guys have any thoughts about a tiny {7"} keyboard
> plugin?  i'm wondering if my VBC project might work with
> this tablet.  i've never seen a keyboard that small.  nice
> tablet, tho.

No clue here.  Sorry.


>
> PS: i keep looking for tablets with a real keyboard.  not
> very much.  So far... .

Isn't that what X-series tablet ThinkPads are for?

    http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:category.details?current-catalog-id=12F0696583E04D86B9B79B0FEC01C087&current-category-id=329576204C9E42289967E79E0E7C9A2D&menu-id=products&ref-id=products

    http://tinyurl.com/7723tww

(both long and short URIs provided for your convenience)

--
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Da Rock-3
In reply to this post by Open Slate
On 03/28/12 08:03, Open Slate wrote:

> Jumping in a bit late. I have had a goal of FreeBSD on a slate/tablet
> computer for roughly ten years. The comments in this thread echo my
> experience. Put simply, the primary focus of FreeBSD has been as a server.
> The Gnome team has worked hard to bring the OS to the desktop, with limited
> success.
>
> There are many things required before my slate concept can be realized.
>
>      o power management
>      o pen digitizer interface
>      o HWR
>      o pen friendly UI comparable to Newton OS
>      o components that support a self-made (maker) approach to the hardware
>
> I still hold on to my goal. No telling when enough people will get
> interested.
+1

I'm not sure the pen interface is particularly necessary, but the touch
screen should be able to handle both pen and finger touch.

Another thought is in the apps to be used with the tablet- obviously
they need to be binary packages, so that presents another problem there
(as has come up on this list many times).

As for the last, I have yet to find a "whitebox" laptop (particularly
AMD based); apart from the dev kits I haven't seen any "whitebox"
tablets either.

>
> On Mar 27, 2012 9:46 AM, "Gary Kline"<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 11:28:50AM +1000, Da Rock wrote:
>> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:28:50 +1000
>> From: Da Rock<[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet
>> To: Chuck Swiger<[hidden email]>
>> Cc: [hidden email]
>> On 03/27/12 09:32, Chuck Swiger wrote:
>>> On Mar 26, 2012, at 4:07 PM, Da Rock wrote:
>>>> To ex...
>         you guys have any thoughts about a tiny {7"} keyboard
>         plugin?  i'm wondering if my VBC project might work with
>         this tablet.  i've never seen a keyboard that small.  nice
>         tablet, tho.
>
>         gary
>
>         PS: i keep looking for tablets with a real keyboard.  not
>         very much.  So far... .
Isn't that the point of a tablet? To touch rather than type? Otherwise
it becomes just a disjointed laptop... :)

>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> [hidden email] mailing list
>> ht...
> --
>   Gary Kline  [hidden email]  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
>      Voice By Computer (for Universal Access): http:/www.thought.org/vbc
>           The 8.57a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org
>              Twenty-five years of service to the Unix community.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> http://l...
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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Gary Kline-5
In reply to this post by Gary Kline-5
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 04:26:29PM -0700, Chuck Swiger wrote:

> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 16:26:29 -0700
> From: Chuck Swiger <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet
> To: Gary Kline <[hidden email]>
> Cc: FreeBSD - <[hidden email]>
> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084)
>
> On Mar 27, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Gary Kline wrote:
> > you guys have any thoughts about a tiny {7"} keyboard
> > plugin?  i'm wondering if my VBC project might work with
> > this tablet.  i've never seen a keyboard that small.  nice
> > tablet, tho.
>
> 7" is too small for a QUERTY layout...you just can't do that without 11-12" of space.  There have been folks working on one-handed "chord" keyboards which might fit into that space, but they have a steep learning curve.
>
> Regards,
> --
> -Chuck
>

        how about the eee-701s?  they are no mo' but used to have a
        70% of full size keyboard.  my eee-900A had All the std
        keys.  do we really need the F[n] keys?


        anyway, if not a  tiny kybd, maybe a small one.  
        Another thought: isnt there a rubber keyboard that rolls up
        or folds in half?  IIRC, the keys do compress [about one
        mm],
        and with the heavy THUNK sound:: hey.

        anyway/nutshell, i do like this vivaldi tablet.  =if= it had
        a thunkable and real keybd.

        gary

        PS critical note.  am i mis-remembering, or did someone say
        that eee//ASUS was going to make a *quality* ten inch
        netbook?  my VBC WOUld work seriously well on that.
        anybody??



--
 Gary Kline  [hidden email]  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
     Voice By Computer (for Universal Access): http:/www.thought.org/vbc
          The 8.57a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org
             Twenty-five years of service to the Unix community.

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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Polytropon
On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:21:45 -0700, Gary Kline wrote:
> how about the eee-701s?  they are no mo' but used to have a
> 70% of full size keyboard.  my eee-900A had All the std
> keys.  do we really need the F[n] keys?
>
>
> anyway, if not a  tiny kybd, maybe a small one.  

Maybe I can suggest the Happy Hacking keyboard here?
It's small in size and popular amnong hackers. It does
not have PF keys (those can be "emulated" by Fn+<number>,
comparable to Alt+<number> on early 3270's). Its dimensions
are about 11" x 4.5" x 1.5" at less than 1.5Lb weight.

However, this is an external (USB2) keyboard.



--
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Gary Kline-5
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 02:37:49AM +0200, Polytropon wrote:

> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 02:37:49 +0200
> From: Polytropon <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: Vivaldi Tablet
> To: Gary Kline <[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]
> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2)
>
> On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:21:45 -0700, Gary Kline wrote:
> > how about the eee-701s?  they are no mo' but used to have a
> > 70% of full size keyboard.  my eee-900A had All the std
> > keys.  do we really need the F[n] keys?
> >
> >
> > anyway, if not a  tiny kybd, maybe a small one.  
>
> Maybe I can suggest the Happy Hacking keyboard here?
> It's small in size and popular amnong hackers. It does
> not have PF keys (those can be "emulated" by Fn+<number>,
> comparable to Alt+<number> on early 3270's). Its dimensions
> are about 11" x 4.5" x 1.5" at less than 1.5Lb weight.
>
> However, this is an external (USB2) keyboard.


        in jan or feb i bought a mini sized kybd.  it is
        i think 11.5" long.  it save loads of travel time for my
        finger and shoulder.

        I Did ck the ASUS Website a few days ago, but couldnt be
        sure of anything.  thats why i asked
>
>
>
> --
> Polytropon
> Magdeburg, Germany
> Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
> Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...

--
 Gary Kline  [hidden email]  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
     Voice By Computer (for Universal Access): http:/www.thought.org/vbc
          The 8.57a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org
             Twenty-five years of service to the Unix community.

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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Chad Perrin
In reply to this post by Polytropon
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 02:37:49AM +0200, Polytropon wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:21:45 -0700, Gary Kline wrote:
> > how about the eee-701s?  they are no mo' but used to have a
> > 70% of full size keyboard.  my eee-900A had All the std
> > keys.  do we really need the F[n] keys?
> >
> >
> > anyway, if not a  tiny kybd, maybe a small one.  
>
> Maybe I can suggest the Happy Hacking keyboard here?
> It's small in size and popular amnong hackers. It does
> not have PF keys (those can be "emulated" by Fn+<number>,
> comparable to Alt+<number> on early 3270's). Its dimensions
> are about 11" x 4.5" x 1.5" at less than 1.5Lb weight.
>
> However, this is an external (USB2) keyboard.

I was thinking of mentioning the Happy Hacking keyboard, but I see you
beat me to it.  I have not used one for more than a few minutes once,
though.  Does the Fn+<number> work with Ctrl+Alt+F<number> combination to
move around between TTY consoles?

--
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Polytropon
On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:48:34 -0600, Chad Perrin wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 02:37:49AM +0200, Polytropon wrote:
> > On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:21:45 -0700, Gary Kline wrote:
> > > how about the eee-701s?  they are no mo' but used to have a
> > > 70% of full size keyboard.  my eee-900A had All the std
> > > keys.  do we really need the F[n] keys?
> > >
> > >
> > > anyway, if not a  tiny kybd, maybe a small one.  
> >
> > Maybe I can suggest the Happy Hacking keyboard here?
> > It's small in size and popular amnong hackers. It does
> > not have PF keys (those can be "emulated" by Fn+<number>,
> > comparable to Alt+<number> on early 3270's). Its dimensions
> > are about 11" x 4.5" x 1.5" at less than 1.5Lb weight.
> >
> > However, this is an external (USB2) keyboard.
>
> I was thinking of mentioning the Happy Hacking keyboard, but I see you
> beat me to it.  I have not used one for more than a few minutes once,
> though.  Does the Fn+<number> work with Ctrl+Alt+F<number> combination to
> move around between TTY consoles?

As far as I remember, it does. I don't have a HHK here to check.
>From what I know, the keyboard generates the proper codes
internally, so Fn+<number> is equivalent to PF <number> in
any regards, and therefore any combination with Ctrl and/or
Alt should also work as expected. To the computer, it should
be no difference from a "real" keyboard.



--
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Vivaldi Tablet

Chad Perrin
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 03:54:03AM +0200, Polytropon wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 19:48:34 -0600, Chad Perrin wrote:
> >
> > I was thinking of mentioning the Happy Hacking keyboard, but I see you
> > beat me to it.  I have not used one for more than a few minutes once,
> > though.  Does the Fn+<number> work with Ctrl+Alt+F<number> combination to
> > move around between TTY consoles?
>
> As far as I remember, it does. I don't have a HHK here to check.
> >From what I know, the keyboard generates the proper codes
> internally, so Fn+<number> is equivalent to PF <number> in
> any regards, and therefore any combination with Ctrl and/or
> Alt should also work as expected. To the computer, it should
> be no difference from a "real" keyboard.

My concern in this regard would be whether the keyboard "knows" that the
Fn key is supposed to be applied to the F<num> key, and not to the Ctrl
or Alt key.  If neither the Ctrl or Alt key is modifiable by the Fn key,
I guess that might be a non-issue, but I'm pretty sure that (for
instance) the Fn key on a ThinkPad is meant to be used with only one
other key at a time.  It's just not meant to make up for the lack of
standard keyboard keys, so there isn't any conflict.

--
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
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