hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1 for installation media

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hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1 for installation media

Eugene Grosbein-10
Hi!

Since 11.2-RELESE, default console driver vt(4) checks ACPI table for presence of VGA in the system.
It does not initialize console (no input, no output) if ACPI states there is no VGA adapter.

There are PRs describing many cases when VGA is present but ACPI lies
and we have a regression compared with 11.1 and earlier:
FreeBSD cannot be installed interactively onto such a system, leaving aside serial console.

vt(4) has loader knob to restore pre-11.2 behaviour and ignore ACPI:

hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1

Should we add this unconditionally to the installation media designed for interactive VGA-based installation?
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Re: hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1 for installation media

Leon Christopher Dietrich
Sound's like solid idea.

A lot of systems out there lack propper ACPI description for VGA and it
would definitly make the installation on such a system much more easy.

As far as I can tell it doesn't seam to break other things and even low
power system without VGA (like a pcengines apu2) don't seam to suffer.

On 17.03.19 13:00, [hidden email] wrote:

> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2019 02:59:12 +0700
> From: Eugene Grosbein <[hidden email]>
> To: FreeBSD stable <[hidden email]>
> Subject: hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1 for installation media
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r
>
> Hi!
>
> Since 11.2-RELESE, default console driver vt(4) checks ACPI table for presence of VGA in the system.
> It does not initialize console (no input, no output) if ACPI states there is no VGA adapter.
>
> There are PRs describing many cases when VGA is present but ACPI lies
> and we have a regression compared with 11.1 and earlier:
> FreeBSD cannot be installed interactively onto such a system, leaving aside serial console.
>
> vt(4) has loader knob to restore pre-11.2 behaviour and ignore ACPI:
>
> hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1
>
> Should we add this unconditionally to the installation media designed for interactive VGA-based installation?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>


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Re: hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1 for installation media

Warner Losh
I generally like this idea... But two caveats...

First, we'd need to update the docs so that folks doing serial installs can
unset it.... Though serial installs are a weird beast....
Second, if it's really needed, we should have the installer generate it.
alas, only vt can tell us that, but it should be easy to add a sysctl to it
that says that it has done video by ignoring the absence of the vga node...

Warner

On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 6:58 AM Leon Christopher Dietrich <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sound's like solid idea.
>
> A lot of systems out there lack propper ACPI description for VGA and it
> would definitly make the installation on such a system much more easy.
>
> As far as I can tell it doesn't seam to break other things and even low
> power system without VGA (like a pcengines apu2) don't seam to suffer.
>
> On 17.03.19 13:00, [hidden email] wrote:
> > Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2019 02:59:12 +0700
> > From: Eugene Grosbein <[hidden email]>
> > To: FreeBSD stable <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1 for installation media
> > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > Since 11.2-RELESE, default console driver vt(4) checks ACPI table for
> presence of VGA in the system.
> > It does not initialize console (no input, no output) if ACPI states
> there is no VGA adapter.
> >
> > There are PRs describing many cases when VGA is present but ACPI lies
> > and we have a regression compared with 11.1 and earlier:
> > FreeBSD cannot be installed interactively onto such a system, leaving
> aside serial console.
> >
> > vt(4) has loader knob to restore pre-11.2 behaviour and ignore ACPI:
> >
> > hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1
> >
> > Should we add this unconditionally to the installation media designed
> for interactive VGA-based installation?
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
>
>
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Re: hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1 for installation media

Konstantin Belousov
On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 10:10:45AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote:
> I generally like this idea... But two caveats...
>
> First, we'd need to update the docs so that folks doing serial installs can
> unset it.... Though serial installs are a weird beast....
> Second, if it's really needed, we should have the installer generate it.
> alas, only vt can tell us that, but it should be easy to add a sysctl to it
> that says that it has done video by ignoring the absence of the vga node...
It is not about VGA node (what is that ?).
It is about ignoring FACP flag IAPC_BOOT_ARCH={NO_VGA}, and there are
machines which actually break when trying to access VGA hardware despite
the flag is set.
Can anybody provide an example of machine where the flag is set but VGA
works ?  For me, it is set on headless NUC when there is no monitor
attached, and then BIOS does not configure framebuffer at all.

So the proposal is about reversing the set of broken machines, but only
in installer ?  In other words, if it worked for installer, the installed
system would be broken (again) ?

>
> Warner
>
> On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 6:58 AM Leon Christopher Dietrich <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Sound's like solid idea.
> >
> > A lot of systems out there lack propper ACPI description for VGA and it
> > would definitly make the installation on such a system much more easy.
> >
> > As far as I can tell it doesn't seam to break other things and even low
> > power system without VGA (like a pcengines apu2) don't seam to suffer.
What apu2 reports in FACP flags ?  Do
        acpidump -dt | grep IAPC_BOOT_ARCH

> >
> > On 17.03.19 13:00, [hidden email] wrote:
> > > Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2019 02:59:12 +0700
> > > From: Eugene Grosbein <[hidden email]>
> > > To: FreeBSD stable <[hidden email]>
> > > Subject: hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1 for installation media
> > > Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r
> > >
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > > Since 11.2-RELESE, default console driver vt(4) checks ACPI table for
> > presence of VGA in the system.
> > > It does not initialize console (no input, no output) if ACPI states
> > there is no VGA adapter.
> > >
> > > There are PRs describing many cases when VGA is present but ACPI lies
> > > and we have a regression compared with 11.1 and earlier:
> > > FreeBSD cannot be installed interactively onto such a system, leaving
> > aside serial console.
> > >
> > > vt(4) has loader knob to restore pre-11.2 behaviour and ignore ACPI:
> > >
> > > hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1
> > >
> > > Should we add this unconditionally to the installation media designed
> > for interactive VGA-based installation?
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> [hidden email] mailing list
> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"
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Re: hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1 for installation media

Eugene Grosbein-10
18.03.2019 0:34, Konstantin Belousov wrote:

> Can anybody provide an example of machine where the flag is set but VGA
> works ?  For me, it is set on headless NUC when there is no monitor
> attached, and then BIOS does not configure framebuffer at all.

http://freebsd.1045724.x6.nabble.com/vt-4-related-hang-of-11-2-td6299125.html
https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=230172
https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=229235

> > So the proposal is about reversing the set of broken machines, but only
> in installer ?  In other words, if it worked for installer, the installed
> system would be broken (again) ?

VGA-based installation session won't event start unless this is fixed.

It should be easy to make installer generate the knob for target machine
if installer sees wrong ACPI flag with working VGA hardware.

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Re: hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1 for installation media

Daniel Braniss-2
In reply to this post by Konstantin Belousov


> On 17 Mar 2019, at 19:34, Konstantin Belousov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 10:10:45AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote:
>> I generally like this idea... But two caveats...
>>
>> First, we'd need to update the docs so that folks doing serial installs can
>> unset it.... Though serial installs are a weird beast....
>> Second, if it's really needed, we should have the installer generate it.
>> alas, only vt can tell us that, but it should be easy to add a sysctl to it
>> that says that it has done video by ignoring the absence of the vga node...
> It is not about VGA node (what is that ?).
> It is about ignoring FACP flag IAPC_BOOT_ARCH={NO_VGA}, and there are
> machines which actually break when trying to access VGA hardware despite
> the flag is set.
> Can anybody provide an example of machine where the flag is set but VGA
> works ?  For me, it is set on headless NUC when there is no monitor
> attached, and then BIOS does not configure framebuffer at all.
>
> So the proposal is about reversing the set of broken machines, but only
> in installer ?  In other words, if it worked for installer, the installed
> system would be broken (again) ?
>
>>
>> Warner
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 6:58 AM Leon Christopher Dietrich <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Sound's like solid idea.
>>>
>>> A lot of systems out there lack propper ACPI description for VGA and it
>>> would definitly make the installation on such a system much more easy.
>>>
>>> As far as I can tell it doesn't seam to break other things and even low
>>> power system without VGA (like a pcengines apu2) don't seam to suffer.
> What apu2 reports in FACP flags ?  Do
> acpidump -dt | grep IAPC_BOOT_ARCH


mine reports:
        IAPC_BOOT_ARCH=

>
>>>
>>> On 17.03.19 13:00, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2019 02:59:12 +0700
>>>> From: Eugene Grosbein <[hidden email]>
>>>> To: FreeBSD stable <[hidden email]>
>>>> Subject: hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1 for installation media
>>>> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r
>>>>
>>>> Hi!
>>>>
>>>> Since 11.2-RELESE, default console driver vt(4) checks ACPI table for
>>> presence of VGA in the system.
>>>> It does not initialize console (no input, no output) if ACPI states
>>> there is no VGA adapter.
>>>>
>>>> There are PRs describing many cases when VGA is present but ACPI lies
>>>> and we have a regression compared with 11.1 and earlier:
>>>> FreeBSD cannot be installed interactively onto such a system, leaving
>>> aside serial console.
>>>>
>>>> vt(4) has loader knob to restore pre-11.2 behaviour and ignore ACPI:
>>>>
>>>> hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1
>>>>
>>>> Should we add this unconditionally to the installation media designed
>>> for interactive VGA-based installation?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> [hidden email] mailing list
>> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable
>> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email]"
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>"

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Re: hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1 for installation media

Konstantin Belousov
In reply to this post by Eugene Grosbein-10
On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 05:09:31AM +0700, Eugene Grosbein wrote:
> 18.03.2019 0:34, Konstantin Belousov wrote:
>
> > Can anybody provide an example of machine where the flag is set but VGA
> > works ?  For me, it is set on headless NUC when there is no monitor
> > attached, and then BIOS does not configure framebuffer at all.
>
> http://freebsd.1045724.x6.nabble.com/vt-4-related-hang-of-11-2-td6299125.html
> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=230172
> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=229235
All of them are about Silvermont/Airmont atoms which probably share reference
Intel BIOS code.

As I noted above, BIOS on mine machine is somewhat smarter, it reports
NO_VGA only if the display was not connected on boot.

>
> > > So the proposal is about reversing the set of broken machines, but only
> > in installer ?  In other words, if it worked for installer, the installed
> > system would be broken (again) ?
>
> VGA-based installation session won't event start unless this is fixed.
>
> It should be easy to make installer generate the knob for target machine
> if installer sees wrong ACPI flag with working VGA hardware.
Until installer generates such knob, it is out of question to make
the config of the kernel booted from the installation media different
from the config of the installed system.

That said, did anybody considered ignoring NO_VGA FACP flag on Silvermonts
only ?  Or even better, gather SMBIOS identifications for affected BIOSes
and ignore the flag for them ?
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Re: hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1 for installation media

Leon Christopher Dietrich
It also happens on some supermicro atom boards that definitely don't run
Intel reference BIOS software. I can't provide any serial numbers dough
since it's Sunday at my location.

On 18.03.19 11:22, Konstantin Belousov wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 05:09:31AM +0700, Eugene Grosbein wrote:
>> 18.03.2019 0:34, Konstantin Belousov wrote:
>>
>>> Can anybody provide an example of machine where the flag is set but VGA
>>> works ?  For me, it is set on headless NUC when there is no monitor
>>> attached, and then BIOS does not configure framebuffer at all.
>> http://freebsd.1045724.x6.nabble.com/vt-4-related-hang-of-11-2-td6299125.html
>> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=230172
>> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=229235
> All of them are about Silvermont/Airmont atoms which probably share reference
> Intel BIOS code.
>
> As I noted above, BIOS on mine machine is somewhat smarter, it reports
> NO_VGA only if the display was not connected on boot.
>
>>>> So the proposal is about reversing the set of broken machines, but only
>>> in installer ?  In other words, if it worked for installer, the installed
>>> system would be broken (again) ?
>> VGA-based installation session won't event start unless this is fixed.
>>
>> It should be easy to make installer generate the knob for target machine
>> if installer sees wrong ACPI flag with working VGA hardware.
> Until installer generates such knob, it is out of question to make
> the config of the kernel booted from the installation media different
> from the config of the installed system.
>
> That said, did anybody considered ignoring NO_VGA FACP flag on Silvermonts
> only ?  Or even better, gather SMBIOS identifications for affected BIOSes
> and ignore the flag for them ?


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Re: hw.vga.acpi_ignore_no_vga=1 for installation media

Eugene Grosbein-10
In reply to this post by Konstantin Belousov
18.03.2019 17:22, Konstantin Belousov wrote:

> That said, did anybody considered ignoring NO_VGA FACP flag on Silvermonts
> only ?  Or even better, gather SMBIOS identifications for affected BIOSes
> and ignore the flag for them ?

Is SMBIOS-bases blacklisting reliable considering future BIOS updates (including pre-installed)?

When it comes to human-managed interactive installation, it seems for me more reliable
to check real functions of VGA and ACPI flag than collecting black list.

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